Appendix A:
Transcript of Interview with Khabat Abas, recorded via Zoom on 15 February 2024
LR: Lauren Redhead
KA: Khabat Abas
LR:
OK. So I’ll just press record and let that run while we have the meeting. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it, and I’m mindful of it as well. We won’t take up too much time, and because the video essay I will make is only going to be around 30 minutes, we needn’t take more than that. I’m only going to use the parts of your answers that are most relevant anyway.
Yeah, so the aim is… my video essay is about the practice of making instruments as part of a material practice in music, and how basically the perspectives of makers can inform a philosophical understanding of what it means to do that. Basically. So I am just going to ask you about what you do, and then you can just tell me exactly what you think is most relevant about it. And that’s all we need to do.
KA:
Yes, of course.
LR:
OK. I sent you three questions already. We won’t deviate from those, that’s all I need to ask. I’ll just ask you and then mute myself while you’re talking, just in case my dog woofs or something like that. OK, so the first one is: can you please describe your creative practice of making and building instruments?
KA:
Yeah, yeah. So what I’m doing – actually, the decision to make instruments didn’t just happen one day. It’s not like I suddenly decided to make an instrument, because every instrument has some kind of story with the sound and the material I’m using. So, the way I learned music in my country, my background… I don’t know how relevant it is to talk about my background? When you grow up in a war zone, you are constantly in a sound environment. You have a relationship with sound in a different way.
And when I learned to play classical cello, at that time my country was under embargo by the US, so we didn’t have access to instruments or to strings. When a string broke, you didn’t have access to a new string. So I had to knot the string, and we played classical music – for example, Beethoven – with the knotted string. Just imagine the sound. How it’s perceived. And then with the outside environment – the sound of the environment – the building came from that. Because I didn’t have a "normal cello," not just shape-wise, because we had the shape of the instrument but broken, and the strings were broken, so I felt: because of this relationship, what if I change the materials to those materials that were part of my life all that time, and made sound with them?
So the idea of building came from this. And then, all the ideas are related to sound – how it would be – and of course, to my experience and listening. Listening is a big part of this because it’s a relationship and an experience. When I am experimenting with these materials, they are always giving me a possibility – which is unexpected sometimes, or most of the time, actually. What these instruments give to me – it’s broadened beyond just building an instrument. I don’t build the instruments by hand, but I design them. I choose the materials, and I’m working with a professional instrument maker or cello maker.
I can say "cello maker" because most of the instruments that I have made are cellos. For example, I have the bombshell cello, which I made with a metal worker: just shaping it, cutting it with a laser, and things like that. It’s not the traditional environment for instrument making – it’s totally different. And all that, it’s a key part of my sound. So all these instruments that I’m making – the sound, the material, the building of them, how I choose – it’s key to my sound environment and my musical identity when I’m building the instrument. Whatever I use, it’s serving the sound.
As I mentioned, the material that I’m choosing is not just "whatever I choose" – it’s a relation with it. And also, the important part of those materials that I am choosing is that they have a big effect on the possibility of sound. They give me an opportunity to discover new sounds, new techniques, all the time. And it’s a really deep journey when I’m building an instrument, and I always discover. So I’m pushing the boundary of the instrument as well. I’m trying to adapt some kind of new technique for the cello, and a new sound which challenges the expectation of the form. It makes you think, "What? Is that instrument a cello?" Because the form has power, visually.
As a classical trained cellist, when I’m sitting, I’m just sitting with a form, and I hold the instrument. So the audience’s expectation is to listen to the cello sound. But when I’m playing, I’m trying to destroy that expectation for you guys – destroy it or search to destroy it. It’s a process. And yeah, this is how I came to it, and then all the processes of experimentation that I’m doing: testing new designs, discovering new techniques, and so on. I discover new techniques, which also have an effect on the sound-making. What sound comes out if I use this technique?
And yeah, it’s a really interesting process, because I always have to be in a position of the unexpected; to be open to getting an unexpected result. An example: with the bombshell, which is metal, I expected it to resonate quite a lot because of the material. But actually, the only cello I need to amplify is the bombshell. It’s the opposite of what I expected because the alloy of the material is very thick and doesn’t allow much resonance. It needs to be amplified. And now I have to deal with this – I have to amplify it, I have to hold it differently because it’s heavy. And I didn’t expect this. I thought, it’s just a cello – you form it, and you don’t think "this can be different." But all the instruments, I think they teach me to learn new things, and to be flexible, and to grow with them, to have an open mind, and to accept.
LR:
Fantastic. That’s absolutely fascinating. I think you actually answered all three of my questions though. No, that’s great because you talked about how sound is important, and you talked about indeterminacy, so that’s really fabulous. That’s fantastic.
I guess something that you didn’t mention that maybe if I just ask you briefly about it is: I saw a video of you with the kind of – I don’t know if you called it – the inside cello, like it was the frame with the strings...?
KA:
I don’t know what I called it. Like, the frame of the cello, yeah. Actually, this instrument was commissioned by the residency in Huddersfield, the ame gallery. So this cello is about trying to push the boundary. This body – it’s dominating me. I’m trying to be flexible and to make it get different things. So I thought: what if I just explode the cello into different parts? Like an explosion. When you explode something, its parts go into different places. I used every part of the cello inside the frame. I am inside the frame, and every part has strings. Each side has four strings. One side is just the key of the cello. I put it on the string inside the frame. I didn’t expect the sound, but it’s an amazing sound. I really enjoyed it. I put the back of the cello at the back of the frame, with strings.
But I got some feedback that I was torturing the instrument. I said no, actually I’m trying to understand it. I’m trying to have a dialogue with it in a different way – not just holding it like normal. One side was just the fingerboard and the tailpiece; one side was just strings. I had only a short time to explore this instrument – one week – but it was really intense. I worked from early morning to late at night to build the instrument, explore it, and perform with it. It was really difficult, but what I learned from this instrument was also to use electronics, because it needed amplification. I used Ableton Live for the first time that week. I had to learn to use some files and work with it.
Another thing that happened during the performance – which I’m now using as a new technique for my old instrument – made me really happy. When I was playing, I touched the string with my hand, because I had rosin on my hand. I had wanted to grab one object from the floor, and when I touched the string, it made a sound. So I discovered that I could play the string with my hand. I really enjoyed it because I had never used this technique before, and I didn’t have the possibility to discover it without this new instrument. So I discovered this new technique, and now I can adapt it to the normal cello. As for the name – I don’t have any name for it. Actually, I think "cello-ness" is the best name for all the instruments or objects or instruments and cellos that I’m making.
LR:
Fantastic, that’s really great. That’s so interesting, and I really like that point about how you discovered the technique and then it can move to the other instruments. That’s fantastic.
KA:
Yeah. I think that I’m really interested because, as a classical cello player, you have just a few options: just bowing the string, pizzicato, and now these extended techniques. Extended technique is also adaptive, but somehow I think I am discovering more by building instruments.
For example, with the skin cello, I tried to learn to be a percussionist, because I have the capacity to use the instrument as a cello and as a percussion instrument at the same time. So I’m trying to adapt, somehow, percussion technique. I’m just exploring the instrument.
And with the metal bombshell, it’s totally different. With the Tam Tam, I made it into a stringed instrument. I put cello strings on it, and then I sit – because usually you sit in front of the audience with your face towards them – but with the Tam Tam, I have to sit with my back to the audience, which I had never done before.
And I have to play upside down like this – not like the normal way – exactly the opposite.
So I’m trying to push the boundaries of the instrument and myself as well, because when you are learning classical music, there is one big rule: you have to follow it. How you sit, how you hold the instrument, how you play with your fingers – and I’m trying to break those rules when I’m making the instrument.
LR:
Fantastic. That’s brilliant. I mean, I think we’ve absolutely recorded definitely enough for the interview because there’s so much in there.
But there’s one more thing that I forgot to say right at the beginning, which is: can I please just record you – if you could just say something like, “I’m Khabat Abas and I make...” – whatever you like, just a really short two-sentence introduction to who you are, so that if I show that in the video it’s clear.
KA:
OK. Yeah.
Hi, my name is Khabat Abas. I’m a cello player. I am experimenting with the cello, and the sound of it, and the activity, and everything that’s related to this instrument.
LR:
That’s perfect. Thank you so much. OK, I’m going to stop the recording.