Hello pine, it's the talking human again. Long time no see, well, three weeks or something like that, maybe a month. Now it's summer and I can see it in the vicinity. On the ground, next to me there is an empty box of "snus" the tobacco that people in Sweden keep in their mouth, I forgot what it is in English, and an empty beer can and some toilet paper. There is some kind of can next to your roots as well, or I mean, next your trunk. I didn't plan to speak about rubbish. Rather, I wanted to speak about the limits of growth, which is a classic environmentalist book which I'm reading or I started reading yesterday in English. Limits of Growth 30 years later, an update on the original version. And I thought that you would be the perfect expert to discuss this with. On the one hand, because that is something that we share. For instance, Michael Marder has suggested that we are all growing beings and that is something that we could recognise in ourselves as humans that we have this vegetal growth in us as well. And another reason is of course, that the question of growth is relevant in terms of the limits of growth, because living beings are capable of exponential growth, as is capital. But according to the authors, all the other types of exponential growth that we witness are results of either population growth or capital growth, sort of, because the coal is not growing exponentially in the ground, nor the oil and especially not the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and so on. Or, the production of soybeans is not growing exponentially without humans taking care of growing in a way or gardening or plantation maintaining. But I'm thinking of this exponential growth also when I look at your pine cones and your, what they call 'candles', I read recently. And actually here when I look at you, I don't see any fresh pine cones, but I do see small 'candles'. And in the text I managed to look up they explained that pine trees are our gymnosperms, that is, you use a form of reproduction that is not dependent on insects and therefore you don't have flowers but you have male and female cones on the same tree. And what we normally think of as pine cones are the female ones, which then bear the seeds. And the, what I would like to call flowers, which I don't see on you now, but which I've seen on so many other pine trees, are actually the male cones that dry and wither, as soon as the pollen has been spread by the wind. But the candles are like new shoots. And depending on the size, and the vigour of the candles, one can know about your health, but also of the fertility of the soil, and the climate, and so on. So, now when I see that your candles are much smaller than the candles of some other pine trees I've seen, then I would have to worry: Is this something that is a result of your venerable age? Or - which I don't think because I remember seeing quite large candles on very old trees. Or is it the result of the air being polluted here, or? which I don't think that much because there is enough forest around you to protect you from the worst traffic pollution, I think. Or is it because there has not been enough rain or the soil is bad? It could be. Or is it some sort of internal mechanism that you use to restrict growth? And that's the interesting part. Of course, part of the reason why your candles look like smaller is because they've already started to spread out. So they're not like tight shoots but they have become more and more like ordinary needles, but nevertheless. And this idea of some sort of internal mechanisms that function to limit exponential growth, that's of course important, because we know that like there is a limit of resources, if there is not enough food then the growth cannot go on. Or if there is like pests, we know there are insects that attack pine trees, especially. But, if we as humans should learn from you about this, the limits to growth, then it would be interesting to know how you know, how you know how to grow. And because you can basically grow in all directions and obviously, you're not centrally led in the same way as animals with their central nervous system and their brain. But your parts are more independent. Maybe? I'm not sure. So in some sense, so you could, like individual branches could decide that, yes, they want to grow this year more and more. And is that somehow counterbalanced, because the taller you get the harder it will be to maintain balance in heavy wind, for instance. And in some sense, you would imagine that if some branches on one side grow, then the other branches on the other side should grow too. And how do you decide which year to produce a lot of cones and when to rest? Because if I look at you now, this year, you haven't produced any cones or not many at least. Strange. I hope you're not feeling bad. I mean, I hope you're feeling well. But it might be that you have your new cones sort of higher up. Yeah, this is, for humans this idea of limits to growth is now, it's now a really important question. I'm thinking of the Swedish word 'livsavgörande', it's important, it's a life changing issue. And the funny thing is, of course, that growth, we tend to think that growth is very good. I mean, not cancerous growth and maybe not your, the growth of, of your tummy or your waistline. But even that growth is somehow a result of our devotion to growth in all its forms. And how that growth could take place within sort of reasonable sustainable limits? I don't know, of course, traditionally, growth, like population growth or any type of growth is balanced by decay, or by death. And that is, of course, one way, but it's a little bit tragic and absurd. I read this morning in the Swedish newspaper, Dagens Nyheter, about extraordinary increase in young people's deaths in Sweden. So as opposed to all other European countries, the death of young people is increasing in this country. And they had found out that it's especially, not only but especially suicide rates that are increasing, and especially among young people, who have not managed to get an education, beyond the primary education, and have not had help in managing their school and so on. So that's a horrible way of sort of limits to growth. That people decide, young, sensitive people decide that they're not wanted, because nobody helps them, and they're not needed. So they 'd better take their lives. That's not the way I would wish the limits to growth to take place. Of course, a lot of that is criminality, and shootings, but even more drug deaths. So not necessarily deliberate suicides, but also suicides. Okay, so that is something that I have in my mind now, because I read it this morning. I understand, it's a very strange idea for you, for a pine tree, because I don't think pine trees would commit suicide. But, you might stop growing, when you find it reasonable not to grow, or when circumstances are not good for growth. There is something we have forgotten about that. And as an example of the weird concoctions that we carry in our brains, an other thing that I read this morning, or encountered on social media somewhere, was the notion that the herb Rosemary will help you in memorising things. So it was known already in antiquity, and I think Ofelia in Shakespeare's play speaks of rosemary as fortifying your memory. But they've made some experiments, so eating rosemary or even smelling the aromatic oil from rosemary, the herb, will increase your memory. So how does this relate to anything? Well, maybe to the idea that we should try to remember how our forefathers or the previous generations of human beings managed to somehow limit the growth of their societies to fit into the resources that were available. Because in the same text - I've read only the two first chapters of limits of growth, limits to growth - they mentioned that although the food production has increased enormously, the food per person has not increased, because there has been a huge population growth. And although the rate has slowly gone down the population is still growing. And that is related to poverty, because immediately when the worst poverty disappears, then also population growth diminishes. And of course, especially if women can decide. Well I don't know, sorry for being so talkative today. I came to Stockholm this morning and I'm very happy to be here but I'm, I'm heading south to Bodafors already this afternoon, to a wood art residency. It's very funny because the previous artists who have got that prize, which I'm very proud of, have all been working with wood as material. And I sort of asked them that are they aware that I tend to work with living trees, and they said yes, sure. So I'm looking forward to meeting some pine trees down there as well. But it's good to see you, and have a nice summer. I hope to come back to you if not before then after midsummer. Take care. And thank you for listening to me again. Thank you.